mara_dienne459: (Default)
mara_dienne459 ([personal profile] mara_dienne459) wrote in [community profile] antishurtugal_reborn2022-03-08 09:44 am

Green Brick Commentary

 Now we're at about the halfway point in this story. They've discovered their goal. It's right in front of them. There's just one itty bitty problem.

Chapter Fifty-One: The Rock of Kuthian

 

Through the funky apple grove and over the river and through the woods to grandmother’s house the Eragon group goes. They stop in front of the rock and when they stop, a bunch of crows launches into the air saying nasty things about Saphira. Eragon takes it as a bad omen. For half an hour, Eragon stands there in his spot and cast spell after spell trying to find anything that’ll harm them. There’s a bunch of spells in the clearing and the island itself, of varying degrees of strength and power, and a lot of them are dormant for some reason. Eragon also can’t determine most of the purposes of the spells, since no record of the spells exist, and the structures of the magic are so difficult, if not impossible, to figure out. Glaedr helps a little, because he’s familiar with a lot of the magic, because of course he is, but otherwise Eragon has to guess. Most of the time, all he can figure out is if the spell is going to hurt them or not, and it takes him yet another hour to examine everything.

 

We’re told that he’s most worried - and what Glaedr is worried about, too - are the spells that he can’t detect, and we’re told that it’s near impossible to find another magic user’s work if they tried to hide it. Finally he’s confident enough to proceed, and he and Saphira head across the green to stand in front of the spire. Eragon looks toward the top and decides it seems so far away. He sees nothing unusual about the stone, and neither does Saphira, so she says let’s say our names and be done. Eragon asks Glaedr for a second opinion, but Glaedr agrees with Saphira and tells them to get a move on. So Eragon says his name, plus who his daddy is. Saphira says her name, and who her mama is, and Glaedr says his name, plus Eldunari like it’s his surname now, and says his mom is somebody named Nithring and she had a super long tail.

 

Because any of that is necessary.

 

Anyway, they wait, and the crows laugh at them, and Eragon gets uneasy but he ignores it. He finally tells us that he hadn’t expected opening the vault would be that easy. So Glaedr says let’s try again but in the ancient language this time. So they do, and again nothing happens. Eragon gets nervous and starts whining about their trip being in vain... but he decides not to think about it, and then he says that maybe all of their names have to be said aloud. Saphira asks how that’s supposed to happen, since she doesn’t have a physical voice. Is she supposed to roar at the stone? And Glaedr can’t talk either. Eragon says he can say their names for them. Glaedr says that’s probably not the answer, but whatever, let’s try. Eragon asks which language he should say their names in, and Glaedr says the ancient language, but do both anyway just to be sure. So Eragon does so, and nothing happens for a third time. Eragon gets frustrated and says maybe they’re in the wrong place and maybe the entrance to the Vault is on the other side of the rock. Or maybe it’s at the very top. Glaedr says that if that were the case, wouldn’t the directions be in the Book ex Machina? Eragon wonders when riddles are ever easy to understand.

 

Saphira then pipes in and wonders if Eragon is supposed to say his name by himself. She repeats what Solembum told him early on, and she points out that it’s supposed to be his name, not hers, not Glaedr’s, but Eragon’s and Eragon’s alone.

 

Eragon frowned. It’s possible, I suppose. But if only my name is needed, then perhaps I have to be by myself when I say it.

 

Why would you think you have to be by yourself when you say your name? That wasn’t in the instructions at all. Also, neither were Saphira’s or Glaedr’s names mentioned in the instructions. In fact, the rules are pretty much right there for all their vagueness. This is just a stupid filler chapter to tell us that the goal is finally right there but they can’t access it because they don’t know their name. Which is just fancy speech for “you don’t know your true name and therefore you can’t enter”. Which, now that I think about it, is a really stupid way to key a lock. True names change as the person grows, and beyond that, you can’t pinpoint a true name so accurately that some random asshole a century and a half later will be able to open a damn door. What if you guess wrong? What if the person’s true name changed between the time you set the lock and to when they arrive? There’s too many variables. And if this stupid door is linked to Eragon’s true name, then there’s a fucking paradox going on here. And I say that because only Eragon would be able to know his true name, and therefore only he would be able to set the lock, which means he would have to orchestrate his own conception in order to be able to open the door. That, or the dragonballs in the vault guessed at his coming and his true name. Or they manipulated Brom into getting with Selena to make Eragon, which opens up that Pandora’s Box of paradoxes again, because how would the dragonballs know which true name would be needed unless they already somehow knew from being told, and they had to orchestrate the conception of Eragon in order to get the stupid door open? When you think really hard about this, you realize just how stupid this is. It’s not clever. It’s just stupid. 

 

Saphira growls but she leaps into the air and snaps at him to hurry the fuck up. When she’s far enough away, Eragon looks back at the rock, raises his shield, and says his name in Alaglagian and in the ancient language. Nothing happens.

 

And I’m so reminded of the scene in Lord of the Rings where they’re trying to get into Moria and they have to figure out the riddle on the door, and Frodo is the one who figures out that they have to say the Elvish name for “friend” to answer the riddle.

 

Eragon calls out to Saphira to bring her back, and he starts swearing and pacing and reacting with violence as is his wont. Saphira returns and Glaedr states the obvious, that Eragon didn’t win the game. Eragon replies:

 

No, snapped Eragon, and he glared at the spire. 

 

Oh my god, get the fuck over yourself. Did you really think it was going to be that easy? That you’d just be able to waltz up to a place you didn’t even know existed except for a fucking prophecy you were given and bam! you’d just be able to get in like that? Since when in the history of ever has that happened? Even Indiana Jones didn’t have an easy time of it trying to get the Holy Grail. He had riddles and had to figure out the answer to those riddles or end up dead. He didn’t just get to waltz in and immediately cross the bridge of faith. He had to figure out that the bridge was there by taking the first step and having faith that the bridge would be there. Otherwise he’d be dead. But it’s nice to see the little pissant hasn’t matured any. His first reaction is still violence and anger that life isn’t going his way. Instead of, you know, thinking that there has to be some other explanation as to why this isn’t working and figuring out it has to be his true name. But he can’t figure that out on his own, apparently, so he’s got to be told. This kid is denser than a brick, I swear. An insufferable, selfish, irritating brick.

 

Glaedr sighs and says he figured this would happen, and then says there’s only one explanation. Eragon immediately jumps the gun and starts whining about how Solembum lied to them and sent them off on this wild goose chase so that Galby can fuck everyone up while they’re away. Glaedr says no, that in order to open this... this... he flails for a bit before Saphira supplies him with the “vault of souls” as the answer, and Glaedr says yes, that, and says that in order to open it, they must speak their true names. Everyone is silent after that and Eragon says his intimidated by the thought, but he’s reluctant to say so because maybe doing so would make the situation worse. Saphira suggests that it might be a trap, and Glaedr agrees with her that it would be the worst trap, but the question that needs answered is do they trust Solembum. He starts explaining the whole “if you tell anyone your true name they can control you” and asks if they can be honest with themselves enough to discover their true names, and quickly. He drones on for a while about it, like are you sure, are you really really really sure you can deal with this. Eragon feels dismay and the chapter closes with him asking himself who he is.

torylltales: (Default)

[personal profile] torylltales 2022-03-10 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
Regarding the true name to open the vault thing: I got the impression is was more like

{
IF words_spoken = speaker_true_name
THEN Vault_unlocked = TRUE
}


Rather than having one specific true name as the singular password to open the Vault.

Like, theoretically anybody could get in, BUT they have to provide their true name to the vault guardians as a security measure (making themselves vulnerable to complete mental slavery or even the erasure of their personhood and personal identity, if they have ill intentions or try to harm or steal the contents of the vault).


Much like how Voldemort's Cave in Harry Potter book 7 was implied (or assumed by the fans) to work: anyone can get in, but now Voldemort has a sample of your blood, which can theoretically be used in dark potions or rituals to harm you if you entered without his approval.
Edited 2022-03-10 02:54 (UTC)
torylltales: (Default)

[personal profile] torylltales 2022-03-10 04:39 am (UTC)(link)

That's the thing about self-insert power fantasies, nothing makes sense except in the light of "Eragon is central to everything".

...To borrow and completely mangle a quote originally about the importance of evolution to modern biology.

epistler: (Default)

[personal profile] epistler 2022-03-10 11:35 am (UTC)(link)
It would have been pretty damn funny if it turned out one of the people still living on the island had found out how to open the Vault years ago and Eragon and Saphira went down there only to find everything in it has been looted.

They leave disappointed AND THEN A BAND OF LOCALS WHO TOTALLY HATE THE RIDERS BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED ALL THOSE YEARS AGO SLAUGHTER THE PAIR OF THEM WITH THEIR NEW DRAGON ALLIES AND ELDUNARI POWERUPS HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

...ahem, sorry. Got a little carried away there.
pangolin20: An image of a pangolin. (Default)

[personal profile] pangolin20 2022-03-10 04:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Either way, the whole vault thing is just stupid.
Really. *shakes head*
dryaddryagain: (Default)

[personal profile] dryaddryagain 2022-03-10 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually it would be pretty damn funny, if not somewhat real-world historically accurate. Think about all the tombs of ancient Egypt that were looted. Those tombs, especially the tombs of the rich and the pharaoh, were designed to prevent people from stealing their shit. But people found a way to steal the shit anyway.

I may be reaching but I wonder if CP was trying to approach this situation in a different way in TSiaSoS with the Staff of Blue. Though that was a broken dead end, whereas if the Vault of Souls was looted, there might still be a way forward.

Perhaps the real problem is his reliance on Powerups and not the circumstances around obtaining them, since I don't understand why the Seed couldn't just make a new staff since it makes the green one. Then again I think the Seed was handled badly in every way. Almost makes me want to write a spitefic where the Seed is happy to have a host to go terraforming with and Kira's like "No, WAR."
epistler: (Default)

[personal profile] epistler 2022-03-12 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I may be reaching but I wonder if CP was trying to approach this situation in a different way in TSiaSoS with the Staff of Blue.

A plot twist which could have been interesting if it had gone in any other direction than "oh well, let's just leave then". I would have had them take the broken pieces with them and had a race against time scenario as they desperately tried to fix it before the war is lost.

Perhaps the real problem is his reliance on Powerups and not the circumstances around obtaining them,

I think you're right. There's nothing inherently Bad about having a character obtain special powers, but how you handle it is what makes the difference. If they didn't earn it, then they have to do so retroactively by selflessly using them for the greater good, a la most superheroes. And before anyone says Kiragon does that - no she fucking doesn't, because she doesn't risk anything in the process. She's never in any actual danger, and she doesn't sacrifice anything.
dryaddryagain: (Default)

[personal profile] dryaddryagain 2022-03-14 05:00 am (UTC)(link)
I think you're right. There's nothing inherently Bad about having a character obtain special powers, but how you handle it is what makes the difference.

One thing I really liked in Eragon was the limitations on his power. I thought it was clever how he collapsed the tunnels, and that it took him a long time to accomplish. Then he gets all that power and is capable of having all the same ideas as CP, he can suddenly see how to solve a puzzle ring instead of fiddling with it until he succeeds. And that's how we get chapters like this one in which Eragon can't handle his first effort not being enough.

she doesn't risk anything in the process. She's never in any actual danger, and she doesn't sacrifice anything.

And there's no sense of urgency. The Big Bads are gonna be there until the heroes are ready to take them on, and consequences aren't demonstrated where it counts. They don't really have goals, or their goals are a threat for the future instead of a reason the hero has to get on with things. Eragon never has to worry that people will lose faith in him and accept Galby, or have his magic sealed away (except maybe the first part of Eldest) or his connection to Saphira severed. Du Weldenvarden isn't burned down or used as a battery for some nefarious scheme.* CP is comfortable with brutality and scavenger hunts but none of the dire situations that make me ache for characters in better plotted stories.

*I assume--I went from being a fan to being a critic when I tried to read Brisingr. I was big into LotR and Dragonriders of Pern so I liked the first two books because they reminded me of those series that I had finished, even though I was giving it the side-eye for those same reasons. But then the whole "Half of the young men gave their frames a vigorous shake when they stepped forward with their right foot, producing a dolorous cacophony of notes" thing happened and my eyes glazed over. My experience with books 3 & 4 are entirely through SwankIvy and you guys.

I would have had them take the broken pieces with them and had a race against time scenario as they desperately tried to fix it before the war is lost.

Oh yeah, why'dn't they just do that? Seems like something SB should have been able to do.
Edited 2022-03-14 05:02 (UTC)
epistler: (Default)

[personal profile] epistler 2022-03-14 06:48 am (UTC)(link)
One thing I really liked in Eragon was the limitations on his power.

Remember how in book one failing a spell meant death "without exception", as Brom claimed? And then that limitation just magically disappeared at some point and was never mentioned again.

CP is comfortable with brutality and scavenger hunts but none of the dire situations that make me ache for characters in better plotted stories.

It's so boring and irritating. There isn't even any sense of a dire situation when Nas is being tortured because CP refuses to take the gloves off and actually make the torture stick. Real torture would have reduced her to a shadow of her former self, but instead she gets all these copouts (toilet breaks! A magic spell which makes the torture painless!) and just gets over the whole ordeal after a good night's sleep and a chat with Elva. Come on.

epistler: (Default)

[personal profile] epistler 2022-03-12 01:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually it would be pretty damn funny, if not somewhat real-world historically accurate. Think about all the tombs of ancient Egypt that were looted.

Ha, yes. And it wasn't just 19th century treasure hunters either - plenty of tombs were looted when the mummy had barely even gone cold.

Either way, the whole vault thing is just stupid.

It's easily one of THE biggest deus ex machinas I have EVER seen in any work of fiction. Aw, poor wickle Eragon is in a tough situation and doesn't have an easy out? Don't worry, here's a cave full of free power-ups! Oh and also all the ridiculous contrivances so far have now been explained away so the author gets himself off the hook at the same time! Yay!

Bah.
pangolin20: An image of a pangolin. (Default)

[personal profile] pangolin20 2022-03-10 03:36 pm (UTC)(link)
That seems logical. If whoever entered the vault was someone like Eragon, that person couold be easily persuaded to join their cause. If whoever entered the vault was opposed against them, they would know that person's true name and force them to join their cause. So it would be pretty watertight. Although they probably indeed waited so long for Eragon to find it because of Sue reasons.
cmdrnemo: (Default)

[personal profile] cmdrnemo 2022-03-11 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
In that case the thing would be chock full of confused pokemon.
torylltales: (Default)

[personal profile] torylltales 2022-03-11 02:39 am (UTC)(link)

At their core, is that not what eldunarya are? Dragon souls trapped in pokeballs?

cmdrnemo: (Default)

[personal profile] cmdrnemo 2022-03-11 04:53 am (UTC)(link)
"Nuclear warhead I chose you!" -the smartest most powerful wizard in all of these books.

You are clearly not wrong.