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antishurtugal_reborn2025-03-31 05:34 pm
epistler) wrote in antishurtugal_reborn2025-03-31 05:34 pm
Entry tags:
Trig, Angela, Greg, And How To Fail At Comic Relief Characters
Obviously we dislike 99.9% of Paolini's characters, but the three who seem to be the most universally loathed are his three comic relief characters - Angela, Trig, and Greg the LOLCRAZY ship mind.
I've been thinking about that recently, and decided it would be interesting and hopefully instructive to look into why these characters failed so drastically in more detail, and how to write a funny character in a way that is actually successful.
To begin with I'm gonna lump Angela and Greg together because their style of "humour" is very similar. They are both painted as very eccentric and in Greg's case mentally unbalanced. As a result they say all sorts of bizarre and random things such as Angela talking about counting pigeons right out of nowhere.
Just saying random stuff is not funny. The odd non sequitur can work, but it has to be done properly, and if 95% of the character's dialogue is nothing but, the reader is just going to want them to shut the fuck up. Especially so if they never stop fucking blathering.
This is reason one as to why both characters are irritating as fuck instead of funny.
Then we have Trig, who is supposed to be funny because he's naïve and innocent and asks nosey questions as a result, and also he looks like a dork with his stupid-looking outfit and generally gawky appearance. However, his antics come off not as clueless but as thoughtless, insensitive, and rude. His supposed naivety is ruined by the fact that it comes coupled with a complete inability to read the room and know when to keep his mouth shut, as a result of which he comes off as just not caring about other people's feelings and having no tact. So of course we don't find him funny and charming. Instead we just hate him and kept wishing he would just fucking die. The more so that Paolini kept using his ass for Tragedy Fodder by putting him in supposed danger all the time.
What are the two key issues here? Well obviously the first is that their "humour" is not funny. The second is that Paolini didn't bother (or was unable to) make any of these characters likeable.
So how do we avoid falling into this trap? There are a few important factors to consider.
First off: don't write comic relief characters in the first place.
Instead, write characters who are funny. If you only think of a character as "the comic relief" you have already failed, because now they cannot have any identity outside of that, and you will feel compelled to have them do nothing except crack jokes and comically fall on their arse all the time. That's not a character. That's a clown.
A funny character shouldn't just be cracking jokes all the time to begin with, because nobody behaves like that either unless they're a comedian who's currently on stage. And nobody would ever like someone who acts like that. A well-adjusted person/character knows when to be light-hearted and when to get serious.
Most of the time, I've found the best approach is to make the character not take themselves too seriously and perhaps do something silly from time to time by accident, such as the classic Disney sidekick gag where the character boasts loudly about what amazing senses they have only to immediately get jumped because guess what, they're way more incompetent than they're prepared to let on. An ability to laugh at yourself is also an important skill you need if you want to be amusing to other people as well as likeable.
The other factor to consider here ties into the last sentence above: the funny character must also have likeable traits that are not related to them being funny.
The last comical character I wrote was funny because he was pompous, self-important, grandiose and stupidly reckless, as a result of which he was frequently laughed at and would periodically get himself into a pickle and need to be bailed out. The other characters naturally found these traits annoying and kept calling him out on it, but they didn't tell him to fuck off and start hating him because he was also incredibly kind and considerate, brave, loyal, and always putting his friends first. So like any of us they put up with his irritating traits because they loved him far too much for that to be a deal-breaker. He is never once intentionally a jerk, even when someone's being a jerk to him. He's just kind of a doofus.
Being a doofus is forgivable.
Being an asshole is not.
And Angela, Greg and Trig are assholes. Angela is a bully and an abuser who doesn't have a kind word to say to or about anybody (traits which only get worse the more pagetime she gets). She and Greg both constantly insult people and act like they're superior to everyone else. Trig, like I said, is an asshole who constantly puts his foot in it by asking rude questions and never learns his lesson because he clearly just doesn't care.
On a related note, Saphira and Eragon (and later Morontagh and Thorn) constantly insulting and belittling each other is obviously supposed to be amusing banter between best pals but fails because Paolini failed at the "best pals" part. So instead they just come off as if they hate each other.
Comic relief that is not funny is one of the most irritating things on earth, so therefore it is really not surprising that a failed comic relief character is going to be the one we all want to throw into one of those machines that grind up old couches, feet first, then set the goopy remains on fire and toast marshmallows while singing a happy tune.
Of course, it also helps rather a lot if you, the author, has a good sense of humour. Paolini thinks newt puns are the height of comedy. Enough said.
I've been thinking about that recently, and decided it would be interesting and hopefully instructive to look into why these characters failed so drastically in more detail, and how to write a funny character in a way that is actually successful.
To begin with I'm gonna lump Angela and Greg together because their style of "humour" is very similar. They are both painted as very eccentric and in Greg's case mentally unbalanced. As a result they say all sorts of bizarre and random things such as Angela talking about counting pigeons right out of nowhere.
Just saying random stuff is not funny. The odd non sequitur can work, but it has to be done properly, and if 95% of the character's dialogue is nothing but, the reader is just going to want them to shut the fuck up. Especially so if they never stop fucking blathering.
This is reason one as to why both characters are irritating as fuck instead of funny.
Then we have Trig, who is supposed to be funny because he's naïve and innocent and asks nosey questions as a result, and also he looks like a dork with his stupid-looking outfit and generally gawky appearance. However, his antics come off not as clueless but as thoughtless, insensitive, and rude. His supposed naivety is ruined by the fact that it comes coupled with a complete inability to read the room and know when to keep his mouth shut, as a result of which he comes off as just not caring about other people's feelings and having no tact. So of course we don't find him funny and charming. Instead we just hate him and kept wishing he would just fucking die. The more so that Paolini kept using his ass for Tragedy Fodder by putting him in supposed danger all the time.
What are the two key issues here? Well obviously the first is that their "humour" is not funny. The second is that Paolini didn't bother (or was unable to) make any of these characters likeable.
So how do we avoid falling into this trap? There are a few important factors to consider.
First off: don't write comic relief characters in the first place.
Instead, write characters who are funny. If you only think of a character as "the comic relief" you have already failed, because now they cannot have any identity outside of that, and you will feel compelled to have them do nothing except crack jokes and comically fall on their arse all the time. That's not a character. That's a clown.
A funny character shouldn't just be cracking jokes all the time to begin with, because nobody behaves like that either unless they're a comedian who's currently on stage. And nobody would ever like someone who acts like that. A well-adjusted person/character knows when to be light-hearted and when to get serious.
Most of the time, I've found the best approach is to make the character not take themselves too seriously and perhaps do something silly from time to time by accident, such as the classic Disney sidekick gag where the character boasts loudly about what amazing senses they have only to immediately get jumped because guess what, they're way more incompetent than they're prepared to let on. An ability to laugh at yourself is also an important skill you need if you want to be amusing to other people as well as likeable.
The other factor to consider here ties into the last sentence above: the funny character must also have likeable traits that are not related to them being funny.
The last comical character I wrote was funny because he was pompous, self-important, grandiose and stupidly reckless, as a result of which he was frequently laughed at and would periodically get himself into a pickle and need to be bailed out. The other characters naturally found these traits annoying and kept calling him out on it, but they didn't tell him to fuck off and start hating him because he was also incredibly kind and considerate, brave, loyal, and always putting his friends first. So like any of us they put up with his irritating traits because they loved him far too much for that to be a deal-breaker. He is never once intentionally a jerk, even when someone's being a jerk to him. He's just kind of a doofus.
Being a doofus is forgivable.
Being an asshole is not.
And Angela, Greg and Trig are assholes. Angela is a bully and an abuser who doesn't have a kind word to say to or about anybody (traits which only get worse the more pagetime she gets). She and Greg both constantly insult people and act like they're superior to everyone else. Trig, like I said, is an asshole who constantly puts his foot in it by asking rude questions and never learns his lesson because he clearly just doesn't care.
On a related note, Saphira and Eragon (and later Morontagh and Thorn) constantly insulting and belittling each other is obviously supposed to be amusing banter between best pals but fails because Paolini failed at the "best pals" part. So instead they just come off as if they hate each other.
Comic relief that is not funny is one of the most irritating things on earth, so therefore it is really not surprising that a failed comic relief character is going to be the one we all want to throw into one of those machines that grind up old couches, feet first, then set the goopy remains on fire and toast marshmallows while singing a happy tune.
Of course, it also helps rather a lot if you, the author, has a good sense of humour. Paolini thinks newt puns are the height of comedy. Enough said.
no subject
I hope I don't feel random by posting this, but there is one funny moment I would like to share, it's from a 40k novel called Know No Fear, by Dan Abnett.
On the first part of the novel, there is a group of Space Marines commanders and captains of the 13th Legion aka Ultramarines, and are gathering together before they meet with their Primarch and leader, Roboute Guilliman. To anyone who doesn't know anything about 40k, Guilliman is the best tactician and logistics the Imperium ever have (except the Emperor of Mandkind, of course). An Ultramarine commander boasts about knowing alot of books on war and strategy by heart. Another captain told him if he had read Roboute Guilliman's works before (his master), which the commander replies with "Who? ;P ", before the officers in the room laughs. Looks like a cheap joke to make, but it comes out genuine, as it was natural to say between officers who knows each others for a long time.
Unless you're a comedian by nature or witty as hell, comedy is hard to nail in writing forms. But, from my personal experience, if the worldbuilding is well written and a good sense of humour, it's certainly possible to come up with a funny moment, whatever the settings. If a writer like Dan Abnett (Legit great writer, btw) can pull one off in a sci-fi setting as dark as Warhammer 40k, then is possible to write jokes in a prose form.
Long time ago, I tried really hard, during my youth, to come up with funny characters but instead turned out to be the cringiest characters I ever created. It's been decades, and I still feel the shame and embarrassment ... and every time I think about this, I start drinking.
no subject
I know what you mean. I tend to follow the Joss Weedon technique of having most of the humour come from the characters saying amusing things in a way that makes sense, eg by being sarcastic or joking around with each other. It's all through Firefly, with lines like "yeah, well, I want to be Emperor of Mars and wear a shiny hat - just get it done."
Oh god some of the stuff I wrote back then still makes me shudder. The biggest problem I had, other than inexperience, was that I was trying way too hard and forcing things to go my way. The way Paolini is still doing as we speak.
no subject
Forced humor is arguably the worst ever. Laughter has to be a natural reaction. Forcing it does not work.
I guess Chris Paolini didn't get the memo from his army of editors.
no subject
The studio really screwed that show over - I'd never even heard of it and hadn't heard about the movie either. I only ended up watching it because it was part of the lineup at a movie marathon I went to. I was like "Serenity? What the hell is that? Oh well." Then I watched it and absolutely loved it despite knowing nothing about the characters or the setting in advance.
Hell no. There's a reason why nobody likes people with a fake-sounding laugh. It's one of the most grating sounds on earth and instantly screams "this person is an obnoxious phoney".
Who he ignores whenever it suits him anyway.
no subject
If a writer like Dan Abnett (Legit great writer, btw) can pull one off in a sci-fi setting as dark as Warhammer 40k, then is possible to write jokes in a prose form.
One of my favorite lines in Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny comes after a character was being a complete jerk to a man running a hotel desk. In a book where the nature of godhood, freewill and spirituality are tackled in poetic prose, the line, "he made an ancient and venerable gesture behind his back" will never not be funny to me.
Long time ago, I tried really hard, during my youth, to come up with funny characters but instead turned out to be the cringiest characters I ever created. It's been decades, and I still feel the shame and embarrassment ... and every time I think about this, I start drinking.
Humor's one of those things people have to practice, like all writing. The hardest part is figuring out how to silence the ego long enough to take criticism, reflect and make it your best work. On that front Paolini is royally screwed.
no subject
🤣
Sounds a bit like Pratchett's style of humour - I wonder if there was some inspiration taken from one or the other? (Depending on who came first, of course). In Interesting Times Rincewind makes "the traditional gesture for the dismissal of demons" and the statues who are mimicking him jab "ten thousand terracotta middle fingers" toward the ceiling.
Yeah. He also, quite obviously, takes himself far, FAR too seriously.
Something else I've noticed is that good comedy always seems to come from people who have suffered. So many of the greatest comedians in history were actually very sad people who'd been through a lot in life. Their comedy came from making observations on what they'd learned about life. Paolini comes off as way too sheltered and infantalised to do this. He certainly has nothing profound to say in other areas of his writing; his books have no themes or morals other than childish entitlement and a sneering contempt for other people.
no subject
Oh, he is screwed. I don't know him on a personal level, so I don't know IRL, in person, if he's truly a funny guy. But he should've stop writing words he thought is hilarious. I'm looking at you, newt.
And you're right. To get good jokes, just like writing, needs practice to achieve it.
One of my novel projects, is to write a sci-fi novel including some humor. Not as much as on the level of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but some tongue-in-cheek style of humor, or more realistically, like Firefly, in a way. I have other projects I'd like to get it done first, but for this specific project, I need to get good on the humor portion.
One day, I'd like to tell you guys about it.
no subject
I've read watched and listened to more interviews with him than I can count and he has never once said anything (intentionally) funny.
Writing a comedic novel, I've found, is actually REALLY hard. You have to get the tone exactly right. It's incredibly easy to slip into drama or farce if you don't manage to be consistent with it and keep the jokes coming at the right rate. And choose the right jokes, of course. I also tend to write comedy more frequently and more easily when I'm incredibly enraged. I've been told it shows, too. Make of that what you will.
I hope you do!
no subject
I would, but not here.