antishurtugal_reborn | How to Make Eragon's Heroes into Heroes

Entry tags:

fix-it felix

How to Make Eragon's Heroes into Heroes

Well, since someone started a post about how best to make Galbatorix evil, we should have one for the heroes. Which is, perhaps, the far harder choice.

Keep in mind, we're trying to rewrite the characters, so they become what they were meant to be. So let's try to make our rewrites stay true to their basic concept, if not their portrayal.

For my part, I would probably have Eragon's entitled attitude be a character flaw he has to overcome. Have him get shut down several times by Arya and force him to gradually mature. Have Murtagh chewing him out act as a wake-up call for the character. Another thing I'd do is cut out the constant feasts and parties. They add nothing to the story and only serve to make Eragon seem all the more spoiled.

Murtagh, I would have him defect of his own free will. Have him become disheartened with the Varden and take the side of the Empire. This would mean there would be a sympathetic character on the Empires side. Murtagh would provide a POV for the Empire and a chance to see Galbatorix. It might also force the characters to acknowledge their own flaws.

Roran, honestly, I would have get drafted into the Empire. The entire Carvahall subplot adds nothing to the plot at all. Having him as a POV character could show off the worst aspect of the Empire. It could also have him meet Murtagh and maybe strike up a friendship with him. If Roran makes himself a career and gains great renown as a war hero, set the stage for a great dynamic. You could have Murtagh and Eragon facing off against one another. Maybe Roran and Arya could end up having a rivalry.

Angela um... Well, Angela can dive under a tractor, and I think that would be better for all involved.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My goal here is to make our cast more heroic with minimal changes to the plot as a whole.

Making Eragon have his entitlement as a flaw to overcome is good and deepens him as a character. I'm going to try and work on ways to make him actually heroic. Eragon is supposed to be a champion for the people, right? Have him stand up for them, even in the face of unpopularity. Eragon seems to really care about his public image and sacrificing that for the sake of his morals makes him heroic. One of our lovely dropped plot threads was the Urgal-human conflict that went nowhere, have something bad happen there. Maybe the Urgal kill someone who is very popular because that person ran away during a battle and they decided that their public shaming wasn't enough. The humans decide they should just genocide the Urgals because those savage monsters will be the death of us all. Eragon comes in to be a negotiator between then, because he still believes that peace is an option.

Keep this up, have him continue to defend the downtrodden and the outliers. Eragon has a position of authority, he should be using it to make people's lives better. Healing the sick and fighting wars is fine and dandy, but we need to either see him making sacrifices or see his actions having a tangible effect on the world around him.

Throwing Roran into the Empire would be an interesting dynamic, but changes a lot of details on the plot so I'm going to try and work from another angle. Making Roran is heroic is very easy, if follow the John Wayne rules of manliness: Men should be tough, fair and courageous— never petty, never looking for a fight, but never backing down from one either. Roran comes close to being heroic by virtue of standing up for his morals and actively going against the Empire to try and save his little town despite being vastly outnumbered, but he's too eager to inflict violence. Make him and Eragon different by having Roran less proactive, but also less likely to try and negotiate once the gauntlet's been laid down.

Murtagh's fine, just leave him the way he was in book 1.

Arya's kind of difficult since she doesn't actually do much in the series, and her potential roles of being the sheepdog and the people's champions are already covered by Eragon and Roran above. I could also have her be a foil to Eragon by having her take a more aggressive approach, but Nasuada already has that part down as well. I'm honestly drawing a blank on this one.

Angela's a fun one to fix since she's so flawed, and I love flawed characters if they're done right. Make Angela the creative one, the person who makes weird connections. She's a witch, witches are supposed to be tricky. Keep her quirky, but less "lol random", more "makes weird connections". Starts going off on cuckoo birds and then mentions using a decoy. She's not honorable, but she's also not cruel.

I like the idea of Angela being used like this. I know many people here absolutely hate her but I actually like her. I was actually planning on making her (and thus the greys) my next challenge question but this post pretty much covers that topic. I have always felt Angela was a grey and imaging their culture valuing knowledge almost like a currency for their worth to the community.

Great ideas.

I would make Eragon true to his upbringing: an honest, respectable, salt-of-the-earth farm boy who loves his family and understands how difficult life can be for the poorest. Someone who believes in justice and mercy, has compassion for people who have less than him, and doesn't stand for dishonorable conduct such as hitting someone while they're down or using non-combatants and children (like Elva) for his own advantage.

I.e. an actual hero type like Paolini tried to claim Eragon is, but one rooted in his peasant farm upbringing. This Eragon doesn't put on airs, is uncomfortable with finding himself in a position of privilege and power, but works hard to live up to people's expectations.

To take it further, I would have him resent the Varden for claiming to fight for the people while having ridiculous lavish feasts while their rank-and-file go hungry; resent the elves for living in isolated luxury while humans struggle to scratch a living out of the rocks (to para-quote Tolkien), and while he doesn't know much about military strategy, scorns the Varden leadership for having all the horse sense of a hamster when it comes to their long term plans and battle tactics. Until he is proven wrong at a critical moment of the battle, and turns to humble self-reflection anout his worthiness as a leader and Rider.

Edited 2019-12-29 01:32 (UTC)

The absolute first thing I would do to make Eragon actually heroic would be to get rid of the selfishness (or present it as an acknowledged flaw and have him overcome it). Half the reason why he's so unlikeable is that he's so utterly self-centered and self-obsessed to the point that he seems utterly incapable of feeling genuine empathy or compassion towards other people, and especially so when they've annoyed him in some way. The whole point of heroism is putting others before yourself, and Eragon doesn't do this. His only motivation seems to be obtaining as much personal glory and power as possible, with a pinch of petty revenge on the side. Which is not heroic. It's selfish and childish. By all means, have him take to the whole Dragon Rider thing at first because like any naive teenager he thinks Dat Wud Be So Cool, but when he sees the cruel reality of what's going on in the world outside it's like a slap in the face. He stops thinking about personal glory, and his initial terror eventually gives way to a fierce and selfless determination to set everything right.

And don't have him openly revel in slaughtering helpless empire soldiers by the truckload. I mean FFS.

I like this! One question: how would Saphira fit in this new story?

Saphira has, as main characteristics, being wise, arrogant, vain, and disinterested in anyone who is not Eragon. Her whole character is based on people kissing her ass just because she is a dragon, basically. How would you turn these things into something acceptable without erasing what is the core of her character?

Just make her a powerful and cunning animal.

It isn't as though she ever has anything to say.

How would you turn these things into something acceptable without erasing what is the core of her character?

By making them acknowledged flaws rather than handwaving it because "it's okay because she's a dragon and therefore superior". She needs to have more of a nonhuman mindset anyway. Maybe all dragons are just hardwired to think they're the centre of the universe, and to her that's totally normal and it doesn't make sense why anyone would have a problem with it. But after being exposed to the more empathetic, community minded human way of thinking, she starts to adjust. At first everyone finds her rather insufferable, but bit by bit through little remarks and shows of concern she starts to reveal a more compassionate side until she eventually does something which graphically demonstrates that she's changed (eg risks her life to save someone who isn't her rider, something she NEVER does in canon).

I agree. At first I thought Eragon's selfishness could be an acknowledged flaw but at the end of the day heroes are not suppose to be self absorbed jerks. It would be better to make him being a be positive courageous person which leads to him acting too quickly and being reckless or making mistakes. There can be plenty of face palms that way when he says or does something stupid but honestly meant no harm.

I agree. At first I thought Eragon's selfishness could be an acknowledged flaw but at the end of the day heroes are not suppose to be self absorbed jerks.

Exactly. Recklessness is fine, impulsiveness is fine, being a bit dumb is fine. But being utterly self-centered is not. It just goes too much against what a heroic character is supposed to be, and especially a "traditional fantasy hero", which is what Paolini claims Eragon is.

This could be go in a lot of directions, but there is one in particular that could be used to tackle the whole "Morzan is Eragon's father, not it's Brom" subplot: Oromis.

We know that the Bloody Shit Ex Machina Celebration is the point of no return after which Eragon NOT ONLY gains uber powers that make him absolutely unreliable from that point on, but also switches personality losing that bit of humanity he still had and becoming a complete psychopath.

First of all, I would have characters react accordingly to his new behavior. I would have him do the same things, but with other results.

Murtagh may call him out in the Battle of the Burning Plains.

Katrina may want to see her father's corpse, at least, and Eragon may refuse to concede her this little thing, resulting scary and oppressive to Katrina and unlikable to Roran, who loves Katrina and believes that she deserves to pay respects to her father. Make Eragon's entitlement bite him in the ass.

Make him behave the same rude, entitled way with the dwarves, but this time make the dwarves get offended, and make Orik get offended as well, for fuck's sake! Am I the only who remembers that the dwarves do not like the Riders? They already disliked Eragon getting adopted. Now this little entitled shit shows up looking like an elf, disrespecting them and behaving like their politic is just and instrument for HIM to obtain what HE wants. Fuck, make the dwarves rightly PISSED.

Make Orik, the one responsible for Eragon's action, losing approval because of his actions and trying to ask Eragon to leave to save the election. Eragon reacts badly, basically threatening him and forcing his presence on the dwarves.

Brisingr is such a useless book that I cannot even remember what happens after the fuckass long election. I just now that herebwe would be at 1/3 of the book more or less. I would have Oromis and Glaedr leave the Du Weldenvarden at this point, having being informed of everything Eragon did.

Because one thing Oromis is canonically said to regret is not having slapped Morzan in face when he still could correct his mistakes. Honestly, for someone who raised an abusive bully into a monster and spent the next century regretting it Oromis is astonishingly quick to close an eye at the behavior his current abusive student is displaying.

So, have here a reunion in which Eragon expects Oromis to have to come to congratulate him and kiss his ass, and instead gets punched in the face. Metaphorically. Physically would be even more perfect but OOC, so, alas, verbally it is. Have Oromis say to his face that he will NOT raise another Morzan, and hopefully also drop an implicit threat that the elves have been observing, and they'd sooner get rid of him for good than being responsible for the raise of another monster.

And BAM. Eragon had tried to push the thought of Morzan being his father aside for all this time, and now his teacher basically crosses the world to say to his face that he is EXACTLY like Morzan. That his behavior is exactly the same.

So, from this point on, the entitled boy who believed he had everything under control and to be more important than the others finds himself on a very short leash, forced to make amend for all the races he disrespected (human, elves and dwarves) or to be executed for his mistakes. And until now to the end of Inheritance it will be a personal journey to grow the fuck up and become who he was really meant to be.

folks have covered Eragon, Roran, & Murtgath extensively, so I'll just do some others, mostly Arya.

Arya: she's like 70, so what if she did a lot of her canon bs when younger? So the dwarves hate her for insulting them in the past, & Varden is a little uncomfortable around her bc of the murder. Also the elves don't care abt diplomatic relations bc they make everything they need, so just send anyone.

So Arya eventually figured out she was being terrible (pre-story), so now she is attempting to repair relations, & be better. She is still a vegetarian, but super practical. If nobody is using animal stuff, might as well. Also never aging means 1 outfit can last a while (hence weird leather outfit). And so she finds most groups horribly wasteful, esp. the elves. Also helps ppl, mostly humans, in her spare time. Still sucks at tact.

Angela: cannot cast spells quickly, but can do before-fight stuff. Hates Galby for backstory reasons. True neutral but wants Galby dead. Hides her plans behind a facecade, but does have a reason to do things... Instead of whatever that was.

Nasuda: Not the leader. Is still grieving. Angry w Eragon for cursing Elva. Advocates for the common fellow in the Varden. So maybe it's her idea to seek out alliances w others (like the Urgals). Not a lot of ideas with her.

Arya is so hard but what you did was very interesting. If you pair it with her being one of the few of her people trying to be active in the rebel cause and thus her not having in much help or being taught diplomatic skills. Her mistakes would be understandable because her culture was so different from theirs. For example elves value telling the truth because they speak in the ancient language so I could easily see Arya sticking her foot in her mouth and accidently offending people about subjects like religion, meat, and animal by products by telling them the truth. I could see her being really upset afterward because she hadn’t meant to offend them and feels like she under minded her cause.

I don't think Nasuada should have immediately been made a leader after her father's death either.

I think Ajihad should have been the Varden's leader until after Murtagh became a rider. Let Murtagh try to kill him but fail and leave him severely injured and in a coma. Jörmundur takes over for a little. (This shows the right of ruling is not by bloodline.) Nasuada can become leader later.

Give Nasuada an arc of forgiving Murtagh and realizing he has been enslaved. The Varden are fighting against this kind of enslavement and Murtagh was just a victim.

I like this mirror question.

I think making that making the said heroes into actual heroes is fairly simple. Just make them so they follow a good moral compass and do the right thing. Delete all the bad, rude, and supposedly necessary evil things they did. If it is questionable get rid of it. Examples 1) Have Eragon heal Sloan instead of punishing him. 2) Have Arya be polite about other religions. 3) Don’t let Eragon kill the soldier begging for mercy. 4) Don’t have the Varden whipping their own freedom fighters.
Now that I have probably trashed 1/4 of the books. I have another problem. Now the characters are flat safe cookie cutter sues without any personality.

So making new personalities for them a lot harder.

I will start with Eragon and Saphira. In my new adaption the story will be centered more on Saphira and be about Eragon helping her fight for her freedom and the freedom of all future dragons against Galbatorix who will actually be evil in this version. If Galbatorix isn't evil then why would heroes fight against him.

As for Saphira's personality. She will have a positive outlook on life and and is courageous. Saphira is happy, playful, loyal, smart, protective, and wants to learn. She is a little bit of a know-it-all (even if she isn’t always right) and holds herself to a moral code. She can be a little aggressive/reckless at times. The aggression is way more mild in this version and will only show in understandable situations like when she is afraid or angry.

Saphira relationship with Eragon is happy, playful and caring. Saphira is positive and courageous and like Eragon loves to explore and learn. While Saphira can be reckless she is not as reckless as Eragon, she usually thinks a little more before she acts. She is protective of Eragon and often stops him from doing something stupid. Eragon is reckless because he doesn’t think everything out first vs Saphira who is reckless because she is impatient or is too quick to anger. Eragon on the other hand is slower to anger.

Saphira was the closest to free when growing up with Eragon far away from the empire. She and Eragon have happy blissful memories together because there was a small amount of time that they were a little sheltered from the bad things in the empire and the war. Eragon’s family was very poor so Saphira helped out around the small farm or cabin and would hunt/fish in the woods with Eragon. I am not sure if Garrow will be aware of her existence or her size but she will probably help out by plowing in place of the horse they do not have, herding/rounding up chickens, catching fish while playing in the lakes with Eragon, hunting rabbits, etc and thus will be a big help to the family whether she is known or unknown. She loves them because Eragon loves them. She and Eragon bond during these experiences, play fighting, and things like that neither one of them knew their mothers. Saphira was a little sad because before she learned to talk Eragon did not always realize Saphira was his equal despite loving and caring for her. That mistake was quickly overcome though and Eragon and Saphira become equals. As Saphira grows she starts to sense something is wrong and wonders about what happened to the rest of her kind. I am not sure if she learns about the fall of the shurtagal solely from eragon or if she learns of it through ancestral memories as well. However she feels the need to free her race. She desires to become a mother of free dragons. Saphira fighting for her freedom and the freedom of all future dragons.

Eragon- Eragon will be similar to Saphira in personality because they are partners. I imagine his overall main character traits as being a be positive courageous person which leads to him acting too quickly and being reckless or making mistakes. Eragon is a glass half full kind of person. He is likes to learn things and exploring the world around him. He is an outdoor kind of person. He is loyal to his friends/family and has a strong moral code that he follows. In this version he won't be selfish. Instead his flaw will be being reckless and being too quick to act.

His relationship with Saphira is happy, playful and caring. Eragon and Saphira most likable strong traits are being positive and courageous. Eragon loves to explore and learn and was excited to teach Saphira everything he knew about the woods, the spine, hunting, etc. Eragon is reckless and even though Saphira is a littles reckless too, she is more cautious and usually thinks a little more before she acts as she has seen Eragon make so many senseless mistakes. Saphira is protective of Eragon. Eragon is reckless because he doesn’t think everything out first vs Saphira who is reckless because she is impatient or is too quick to anger. Eragon on the other hand is slower to anger.

I would have Arya feel resentful of her people. She would be upset at how they just closed themselves off from the world when she was captured. Attention would be paid to the flaws of the elves. And the elves eventually sending troops to help would be a result of Eragon. He and Arya would point out how they can't just abandon the rest of the world.

I think this is the first time I have seen an idea that could really help showcase her in a better light.

Arya persuading for her people to help and stop hiding is actually a great characterization for her. It showcases how much she cares for the wellbeing of the world as a whole and how they need to join together to fight for peace. Arya knows that Galbatorix will destroy the elves so they won't have a chance for a future if they don't join the cause now while there is a fighting chance.

Everything that's been said here has been very good, really nowhere to improve with all this, but I'll throw two of my own in!

I would say even if you don't manage to make Eragon likable, what you really need to do is make him funny. If he's routinely the universal butt-monkey then he will at least be enjoyable to read about even if he's not very likable.

Example:
Eragon is tired after getting him and Sloan down from Helgrind and thinks he might prefer to die than be tired. There are Imperial guardsmen coming to investigate the ruckus at Helgrind. Then he sees a bee and regains the will to live.

As noted in the Brisinger spork, this is more than a bit out of nowhere, ill-focused and kind of stupid sounding, not to mention overly done in Paopao's usual fashion.

FIX:
Eragon is tired after getting him and Sloan down from Helgrind and thinks he might prefer to die than be tired. Then he sees a bee and regains the will to live...because the bee just stung him right on the tip of the nose and he now wants to kill the bee. He chases the bee around screaming profanities like an idiot for five minutes until he manages to slap the bee to death... only to get stung on his palm, leading to even more of a hissy fit. Sloan laughs at him because it is uproariously funny, leading what little mercy Eragon might have been considering to go flying out the window. Meanwhile the imperial guards have been quietly watching and now walk away laughing, certain that there is no way in hell that's a Dragon Rider they just saw.

...

And for Arya: no, she's NOT squeaky clean and smelling like pine needles after six months of torture. This will show up in Incompetence Cycle but her tortures consisted of mutilation (such as cutting the pointy tips of her ears off to make her look human), starvation, public shaming and ridicule (because you know an elf wouldn't be able to stand that), actual torture (like waterboarding) and lots and lots of rape in an attempt to break her (which also doubles as stress relief for the garrison at Gillead).
Her taciturn traits and abrasiveness are entirely the result of being still in recovery from that horrible time with everyone acting shocked by how rude she is because she used to be if not friendly then at least icily polite, and when called on it she actually apologizes after realizing she snapped at somebody and the reader realizes from her reactions that even though she's got a killer poker face that six months of torture actually did do a horrific number on her psyche and she's still staying strong and continuing to fight even though all she really wants to do is curl up in a corner, cover her poor cut up ears (head canon: elf ears are very sensitive) and cry.
This way we actually get to see some of that supposed inner strength and steely determination we're told she has instead of it just being an informed attribute.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

How to Make Eragon's Heroes into Heroes

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject