Fandom Implosion
Dec. 15th, 2020 10:34 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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antishurtugal_rebornGiven how long it's been, it's easy to forget just how bad the backlash was when Book Four finally came out.
It was baaaaad. As in basically killed the fandom bad. Once upon a time Inheritance Forums, or IF, the forum attached to the Shurtugal fansite which no longer exists, was infamous for its utter intolerance toward any sort of criticism.This was largely because Paolini's dad and sister both had mod powers there and were notorious for deleting criticism and banning critics, to the point that Mike, the owner, eventually had to ask them to tone it down. (The disgruntled critics, many of whom were fans who just didn't think the series was perfect, frequently defected to Antishurtugal so air their grievances).
Fast forward to the arrival of book four, and IF had gone from that... to this.
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Date: 2020-12-15 01:43 am (UTC)Thanks for sharing this.
It was unfortunate for them to read the fourth book of the series to realize how bad Chris Paolini's writings are. I wish they'd get it at Eldest (that was me, at the time), not the last book ... Oh well, better late than never, I guess.
Now, I wonder if the same individuals would think about TSiaSoS, nine years later. If they still care, of course.
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Date: 2020-12-15 04:00 am (UTC)I'd like to see those fans come over here and offer input. I'm curious to see what they'd offer.
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Date: 2020-12-15 04:27 am (UTC)I distinctly remember reading it and feeling... nothing. I had no emotional reaction to anything that happened in it. All I felt was vague boredom, and a growing dislike toward Brom, Eragon and Saphira. I hated the way Brom and Saphira treated Eragon because they came off as nothing but a pair of arrogant bullies, but I also hated Eragon for being a stupid, whiny brat.
I put it down thinking "well that was a waste of time". I didn't get angry until said friend showed me the painfully arrogant and self-important interviews Paolini was giving at the time, and then someone gave me a copy of Eldest. Between that and finding out about the plagiarism, reading that book pissed me right the fuck off. I went onto the internet to share the outrage with a few like-minded people, Paolini's dad started threatening us, and the rest is history.
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Date: 2020-12-15 03:45 am (UTC)XD Wish granted? The specific atmosphere mentioned was grittiness. Does the space brick have a 'gritty' atmosphere? I mean, Paolini says he's going to write a space brick wall, but that hasn't happened yet, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a stand alone.
I do wish I paid more attention to the fallout. That would have been entertaining to watch. Though college kept me pretty busy.
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Date: 2020-12-15 04:12 am (UTC)Well, he definitely seemed to be trying for "gritty". It didn't really work because of his ongoing refusal to let anyone important die or suffer any other permanent consequences for their actions, but you can see the trying.
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Date: 2020-12-15 03:49 am (UTC)The Nasuada torture scenes weren't that great. First of all, there was too much telling rather than showing for the hallucinatory torture. Second, she didn't believably react. He didn't have to dump on the trauma, but he could've at least showed her reacting like a normal person. I could write a much better torture scene.
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Date: 2020-12-15 04:01 am (UTC)I didn't like the torture scenes either. It was all melodrama, no substance. Nas never believably acts like a torture victim, during or after. The torture itself is unimaginative and also completely pointless because Galby could have just busted into her mind and had done with it, but I think by far the most offensive part is how Nas just magically gets over it afterwards. No PTSD, no lingering after-effects... nothing! A good night's sleep and a chat with Elva and she's completely back to normal. It's such bullshit and really disrespectful to actual torture victims.
I met one once. The poor guy was reduced to walking on crutches because whatever they'd done to him was so brutal it crippled him for life.
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Date: 2020-12-15 06:13 pm (UTC)I don't get all the Angela praise either. Handing a character random new abilities on every other page is not how you make them "awesome". A character's awesomeness lies in their personality and resourcefulness and such.
I know. And when a character is vague for the sake of it, it gets frustrating instead of interesting. Also, she basically Deus Ex Machinas the Priests of Helgrind, and has no function in the story.
Also, we don't get to know her deepest fear, or how she met Serious Ass, because god forbid her character have depth.
I mean I didn't give Mik'El Snowbear any special abilities other than being really good at swordplay, which he got through years of hard work, and he still kicked Eragon's over-powered magical ass.
And he had more personality than many characters that have whole books.
I didn't like the torture scenes either. It was all melodrama, no substance. Nas never believably acts like a torture victim, during or after. The torture itself is unimaginative and also completely pointless because Galby could have just busted into her mind and had done with it...
Oh Noes, Murtagh feels sad and gets drunk! Nas gets burnt with an iron! Seriously, they have magic, seithr oil, and all the traditional medieval times tortures! They could do so much better. If I were to rewrite this, I would have mindrape be a last resort thing (because it could possibly break the person, and it's also super taboo, like cannibalism), and have Galby try to use all the other torture means too. (And I would show, not tell it). This would also make it more horrifying when Eragon casually mindrapes people.
"but I think by far the most offensive part is how Nas just magically gets over it afterwards. No PTSD, no lingering after-effects... nothing! A good night's sleep and a chat with Elva and she's completely back to normal. It's such bullshit and really disrespectful to actual torture victims."
Hell, you can downplay the trauma as long as you don't try to make your story grimdark. Unfortunately, that's what Paolini did. I once fractured my ankle while bouncing on a bosu (a half circle bouncy thing), and I was afraid of that thing for months. And, that's super duper minor compared to what Nasuada went through. She's not even jumpy or afraid of being touched.
I met one once. The poor guy was reduced to walking on crutches because whatever they'd done to him was so brutal it crippled him for life.
Oh my god. Where was this and why was he tortured?
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Date: 2020-12-15 08:39 pm (UTC)I'm going to guess that Angela's deepest fear is running into someone smarter than she is who calls her on her "I'm so quirky and mysterious" schtick.
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Date: 2020-12-15 10:20 pm (UTC)Good point.
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Date: 2020-12-16 06:28 am (UTC)It's the same with real people, you might have noticed. People who deliberately screw around with you by refusing to give straight answers about anything are some of the most obnoxious jerks on the planet. That nobody ever gets annoyed with Angela for doing it is pretty damn unrealistic when you think about it.
Yeah. To my mind it would be far more effective to find a way to make her want to give up. To make her feel like it's all hopeless, no point in resisting any further. Such as setting up a magical illusion which fools her into thinking the Varden is wiped out and Eragon and Saphira are dead.
True. He made some gestures towards being all Dark and Gritty in book four, but didn't follow through on it properly. So you get the nastiness without the consequences. Which is just stupid and unbelievable.
I met him at an awards ceremony where he was being honoured. He was a foreigner, I can't remember where from, whose homeland had a horrible oppressive government. He advocated for education and set up a school. The government... did not like that. So they had him thrown in a cell and did god knows what to him. He eventually got out and went straight back to his good works. He was easily the bravest person I have ever met in my life.
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Date: 2020-12-17 12:14 am (UTC)People who deliberately screw around with you by refusing to give straight answers about anything are some of the most obnoxious jerks on the planet.
Especially when they clearly want you to ask and stuff. It's super annoying. I'm surprised no one has banned Angela's ass by now.
Yeah. To my mind it would be far more effective to find a way to make her want to give up.
You go off the deep end pretty quick when you can't tell what's real and what's not. Galby could cause her to see her father die again and again. And even regular medieval tortures were pretty damn creative. (Though I'd understand if Paolini didn't want to use the Judas Cradle). And if Galby's so evil, why didn't he just read her mind?
True. He made some gestures towards being all Dark and Gritty in book four, but didn't follow through on it properly. So you get the nastiness without the consequences.
It totally feels fake. Like, this is so gratuitous. The NPC's get roasted, and wounded, but the main characters don't even get a visible scratch. It also gets tiresome after a while, and makes the characters look like assholes. They seem to overreact to everything and be cruel for the sake of it. "This isn't your grandparents' fantasy, son! It's got torture and darkness and - wait, did I really need the eggs burnt...or humans being thrown and people being smashed with hammers...or the burrow grubs... or Arya degloving her hand... ... .... Now I'm disturbed"
I met him at an awards ceremony where he was being honoured. He was a foreigner, I can't remember where from, whose homeland had a horrible oppressive government. He advocated for education and set up a school. The government... did not like that. So they had him thrown in a cell and did god knows what to him. He eventually got out and went straight back to his good works. He was easily the bravest person I have ever met in my life.
That's really amazing. Must have been terrifying to live through that.
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Date: 2020-12-17 01:36 am (UTC)What I don't get is why all the "good guys" trust her so much. She refused to have her head examined (and what makes her so special that she gets an exemption in the first place?), won't answer even the most basic questions about herself, and acts suspicious as hell. What, nobody so much as considers the fact that she might be a spy or a double agent or something? Not even when she's caught LISTENING IN ON A PLANNING MEETING? These guys are too stupid to live.
Oh yeah. Ever have a nightmare that felt so real you were afraid to go back to sleep? I have, and I never want to go through anything like that again.
Yeah, grimdark doesn't work so well when you also have incredibly blatant plot armour. It never feels like any of the "important" characters are ever remotely in danger, even when Eragon and Arya are chained up in a dungeon. You already know damn well someone's going to come and rescue them before anything actually happens to them.
No kidding. They all seem rather too fond of having power over others, and Paolini almost seems to get off on writing about Eragon and Roran (and Saphira) terrorising people just because they can. This is not heroic behaviour.
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Date: 2020-12-17 02:16 am (UTC)Not even when she's caught LISTENING IN ON A PLANNING MEETING? These guys are too stupid to live.
It's only Plot armor that they've survived this long. They're not suspicious of the lady with the werecat who fucks off to nowhere at random intervals? And of course, yeah, trust the obviously evil bald guys who clearly take pleasure in cruelty. Fits with the way Nas talked to Orrin. If I was queen and she talked to me like that, I would have my Ra'zac bodyguards drag her off to the dungeon.
Oh yeah. Ever have a nightmare that felt so real you were afraid to go back to sleep? I have, and I never want to go through anything like that again.
Yep. I had one where I was in heaven and had to stab my dog as a test (she was supposed to come back to life), but it turned out I was actually in hell and I had just killed her. I've been having lots of nightmares lately.
It never feels like any of the "important" characters are ever remotely in danger, even when Eragon and Arya are chained up in a dungeon.
The egg cracking was so cliche. And the Priests just left. Like, really? REALLY??!! I mean, Eragon could be chained to the wall in a dungeon and Galby and Murtagh could be dressing up for a Lethrblaka bondage and torture party, and I still wouldn't be worried in the least. (Though that would be more interesting than anything in the IC.)
They all seem rather too fond of having power over others, and Paolini almost seems to get off on writing about Eragon and Roran (and Saphira) terrorising people just because they can.
It's very disturbing. Eragon sounds so happy torturing Sloan. Saphira burns that messenger, etc... Roran even wants to kill King Orrin in Inheritance after Orrin wants to send a messenger to Uru-baen. And don't forget the not a rape threat. That's why Roran is my most hated character.
In my IC fanfic/rewrite, my main character loves to torture and finds it fun. However, the difference is she's supposed to be a psycho, and everyone reacts accordingly. For example, basically everybody is afraid of her (except a few people), and she takes care to hide that part of her from her brother and few "friends". It's also made clear that she's being very cruel.
In canon, Eragon is validated by the narration and by others, and no one reacts realistically. Furthermore, he totally believes that he is right and just.
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Date: 2020-12-17 02:36 am (UTC)How horrible! Poor pupper. :(
"Why don't you just kill him?"
"I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."
With one inept guard, naturally.
What's worse than a cruel, sadistic bully? A bully who is consistently rewarded for their shitty behaviour.
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Date: 2020-12-17 02:43 am (UTC)How horrible! Poor pupper. :(
I was soo relieved to find out she was okay.
"Why don't you just kill him?" "I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death."
Hahaha!
"And I'm going to chain up his lovely love interest beside him. Now scuse me, I have more eviling to do."
With one inept guard, naturally.
The cliche. Speaking of cliches, check out this fun parody fic I found: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13186122/1/Eragon-the-Evil-Editorial-Empire
What's worse than a cruel, sadistic bully? A bully who is consistently rewarded for their shitty behaviour.
It creates bad karma and makes you want to punch them in the face. Not to mention it utterly burns the suspension of disbelief.
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Date: 2020-12-17 04:56 am (UTC)If only the priests had had access to sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
Well, we've all seen it happen in real life plenty of times, haven't we?
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Date: 2020-12-17 05:31 am (UTC)If only the priests had had access to sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
Or beavers with Wolverine powers.
Or they could season Eragon, knock him out again, and chain everybody up.
Well, we've all seen it happen in real life plenty of times, haven't we?
Yeah. Reading is supposed to be about escapism.
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Date: 2020-12-17 11:39 am (UTC)And perhaps more to the point, when we meet people like that in real life we invariably hate their guts, so seeing an asshole of that sort being hailed as noble and heroic is just infuriating.
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Date: 2020-12-18 01:21 am (UTC)And especially when he wins, and has authorial endorsement.
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Date: 2020-12-16 09:38 am (UTC)Oof. I knew it was bad, but I don't remember seeing comments like those.
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Date: 2020-12-16 10:58 am (UTC)I was surprised too, quite frankly. But then hell hath no fury like a fandom scorned, does it?
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Date: 2024-12-21 05:46 pm (UTC)Screenshot 1:
thee3nd: Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:15 PM
To be honest, I'm really indifferent to Most of the book. It was just too darn predictable... CP didn't kill any major characters (don't consider Islanzadi to be "major"), changed the personalities of characters and really did not live up to the excitement that all the "No Comments" created. However, at least there was no major lull in the book like the dwarf coronation in Brisingr.
As for the ending... meh. no more than that.
He was right about one thing though: Angela is awesome!
I also wish that the book lined up with the guide.
But I'm relatively satisfied, and my life will go on.
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Mithol: Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:24 PM
Why are people surprised that CP is a predictable, inconsistent bad writer? Really?
General Assembly: Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:25 PM
They're not. Well, I'm not at least. Though I mean, still, it could have been better.
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mlosgoldenchance: Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:25 AM
I'm incredibly disappointed. I feel like it completely lacked any sort of twists altogether. I lacked the torture scenes with Nasuada, but at the same time I felt like the Nasuada/Murtagh attraction was too obvious. The whole thing was too obvious. Really the only thing I did like was how Eragon killed Galbatorix, with making him accept the things he'd done. Everything else was just kind of lame. And then the end dragged on forever and ever and ever and it was just so neat and tidy. I get that the theme is the younger generation inheriting things from the older generation, cool, but I feel like they could've had at least a little more personality/independence or whatever. It was too clean.
And I'm mad about Angela. Like he makes her even cooler in this book, and then tells us nothing about her! And at the end he's like "I don't want to give away her mysteries sorrynotsorry!" which is about the most BS excuse I've heard from an author, ever. And then the whole "epic romance", all they do is exchange some loaded glances. I like where it started at the beginning with them sparring and everything and seeming closer, but they don't have a legit romance at any point. And I was uncomfortable with Saphira and Greenie being like "oh wow another dragon okay let's do this". It made sense for plot development, but I feel like he didn't build up to it well.
Maybe I'm just mad because I just finished and needed a reason to rant but I cannot believe I've spent the last ten years of my life looking forward to this.
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Unknown: Posted Unknown
"A bitter smile twisted Eragon's lips. The archers above had realized that their only hope of victory lay in somehow killing Eragon and the elves, no matter how many of their own they had to sacrifice to do so.
You're too late, thought Eragon with grim satisfaction. You should have left the Empire while you still had the chance."
Sociopath Eragon is back.
"Then Arya pointed at the men with her sworrd and said, "Brisingr!" and the spear burst into emerald-green fire. "
...So now Arya can do this. Wonderful.
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Leonardo10: Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:00 AM
My friend gave me his cop of the book last night after he only got to the 3rd chapter. I managed to get to the chapter about Elain's daughter getting her lip sorted out, then I just ended up skimmming through the rest of the book hoping against hope that I had been trolled and CP gave us a good ending.
Alas, it was not to be and as people have already mentioned, CP's definition of Epic Romance is totally different from anyone else's. At least he could have made them have a romance of some sort and if Arya and Eragon didn't get together after that they still would have had their romance. I'm sorry but has CP ever been in a relationship? Because if he had he would know that in relationships there are often sacrifices made so that a couple may be together. Making Arya Queen and Rider was a cheap and disgraceful way of trying to make the relationship end in a unpredictable manner.
VoS part didn't surprise me at all, just skipping that section.
The way Galbatorix died wasn't right I have to say, he's an evil villain, he's meant to have an epic death. Why all of a sudden would he suddenly feel remorse and let Eragon kill him? They should have just vanished him over the sea, that would have given him plenty of time to dwell on what he had done. /troll
I was going to loan the book from the library and read it fully, but now I won't even bother anymore, this book has depressed me no end. Why did he not kill off more characters? Rowling gets slated for killing off loads of characters but at least she has the balls, unlike CP. Honestly, I don't think I'll be reading anymore of CP's books anytime soon, especially romance novels, he should really stay away from the genre until he has some personal experience in it.
If he writes a 5th book which explains what happens after, then I might, Might, consider getting that, though its unlikely.
Oh well, at least I have Skyrim to make me forget about this horror show.
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Classified: Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:09 AM
It might not have been what I would call an epic ending to the series, but it was completely CP. He has remained predictable to the end. Well, not all the way to the end. He decided that the very end of the entire series would be the best time to try to break the predictable mold that he'd already cast for himself. The stupidest move I've ever seen in my life. But despite my extreme disappointment over the ending, I still like the series. Angela is fully awesome. He needs to write a book about her.
Espent1004: Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:50 PM
One thing I found rather odd was the lance that suddenly appeared, especially when Eragon had never heard of it nor of any of the other lances that elves made to combat the dragons. Seems rather silly that he is not informed of these weapons, the Dauthdert, by Oromis, especially when he is a dragon rider...
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BaneOfGalbatorix: Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:19 PM
Honestly, it was pathetic. Worst book I've ever read. I sat and read all 850 pages in 2 days in excitement, and it was absolutely horrible.
First 700 pages up to Galbatorix's death took place over the span of 2 weeks. The last 150 over the span of a year! How did Arya manage to train her dragon and let it grow to 6 months of age without an help? How did Eragon not notice?
VoS 243 eggs is just idiotic. Who wouldn't notice that? And I'm pretty sure Galbatorix would notice if the strongest dragon HoH in Alagaesia died or not...
The ending was just useless. It was written worse than a fanfic... The werecats hardly played a role... they were introduced with such vigor and hype, and they did nothing except pop up in a few fights.
Sooooo many loose ends its not even funny... Brom's seven words, Angela's identity, Red eyed rabbits, more names of the Forsworn, No major deaths, nothing about Tenga or the grey folk, nothing about Undbitr, nothing explaining Brisingr except that he made a replica, more information about spirits, nothing about Eragon's relationship... the list goes on.
The only thing I actually liked was the Priests of helgrind scene, and Nasuada's torture.
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Tyczar831: Posted Yesterday, 01:18 PM
There are many things that have been bugging me since I finished the book, but the main thing was why CP created all of these many relationships between Eragon and the other major characters in the books if he was just going to have Eragon leave? He spent three whole books building a relationship between Eragon and Arya, but then randomly cuts it off. Then during the entire book he actually creates more question than he answered. We still have no idea what the final words Brom said to Eragon were, we don't know who Angela really is (although we can make some inferences from the book), and we still don't know where or how many of the Ra'zac's eggs are still alive. I still don't understand why he can never return home even after he gets the new order of Riders and Wild dragons started. If a dragon can fly from Ellesméra to Feinster in a small number of days, then why can't Eragon go and visit his friends and family?
Cielina: Posted Yesterday, 04:11 PM
Just interested - did you guys notice an overall tonal shift of the book as a whole? The aesthetic of Alagaesia seemed rather different. It felt on the whole 'grittier' - many of the fight scenes were incredibly gruesome, and felt far more medieval in comparison to other books in the series. Some of the attitudes - such as a fear of magic or premonition, as well as more racial discomfort (not just with the urgals, but with the elves) - reminded me of how insular isolated villages would have actually been. The cheerily gruesome and gory aesthetic of ordinary medievalism (I don't mean all the courtly romance with french nobles) felt like it had been explored a bit here more. I also got a sense with Eragon how vast and wide-ranging the world was for the first time.
It was nice to see - simply because it felt more personalised and therefore real (although I hate grittiness for grittiness' sake) - although it didn't deter the utter plotlessness of it, and makes me think there's been quite a bit of discontinuity due to the lack of it in the earlier books. I want to see Paolini have a stab at a stand-alone book and try and bring out a specific atmosphere like that again.
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kidris90: Posted Yesterday, 07:59 PM
Very well said. Couldn't agree more. Never before has an entire beloved series been completely ruined by the last 5 pages of the last book. The hate mail is already flying in, especially on twitter.
Cielina: Posted Yesterday, 08:03 PM
Another thought - has his dialogue improved? It felt like it has, in this book. There are more short responsese and more natural responses, which adds a nice touch. More 'Oh.'s and the like. It was better than I thought it would be; it was still pretty bad though.