On the Monomyth

[hidden_urchin]

Since Joseph Campbell's monomyth occasionally comes up in our discussions, here's a critical Twitter thread on the topic that the comm might find interesting.

https://twitter.com/sentantiq/status/1389565106200121347

Comments

[cmdrnemo]

Funny little coincidence. I just finished watching this: https://youtu.be/OI2iOB8ydGo
Which is a 45 minute description of how Star Wars was designed to follow the monomyth as described in the original Joseph Campbell work as closely as possible.

That said, it's probably worth noting that the Monomyth is an invalid theory. The only stories that conform to it are ones that have been written after that paper and that are specifically designed to conform to it. Older stories do not fit the structure. So, much like the work of Freud and Jung, it is now more a piece of history and an example of 'what people used to think' than it is a scholarly or serious work. Potentially useful as a paint by numbers for an acceptable action adventure story. Not worth much, or anything, outside that function.

[hidden_urchin]

Yeah, that's pretty much the upshot of the Twitter thread.

[ultimate_cheetah]

Couldn't there be confirmation bias there? Like, if you specifically look for elements that fit the monomyth, you'll find them, even if you have to really reach for it.

[cmdrnemo]

Sort of, the original 17 steps range from so hella vague as to be borderline meaningless. Like step 1: The Call to Adventure, wherein something new happens. Okay sure, time passes in stories just like real life. There's no way to avoid that one. To the super specific and extremely rare in particular the entire third set labelled "Return" with steps 12-17 are very much optional and you never see more than 2 of them unless someone was specifically trying to make this work.

[ultimate_cheetah]

There's no way to avoid that one.

Exactly. It's literally a fixture of stories. And sometimes it's not a call like that. I've read short stories where the moral/turning point is at the end. (Like "The Displaced Person" by Flannery O'Connor.)

To the super specific and extremely rare in particular the entire third set labelled "Return" with steps 12-17 are very much optional and you never see more than 2 of them unless someone was specifically trying to make this work.

Yeah. The monomyth seems to think that the hero goes through a dark point, emerges from it, defeats the bad guy, and returns. But sometimes the hero never returns. A lot of times, things are completely different for them, or there's not anything to return from. Or they could never emerge from that dark point. (Like Breaking Bad.)

[epistler]

Savage.

[torylltales]

Another thing the twitter thread didn't mention, because it was presented as a universal "this is how stories are", and because it became so widespread in society, it actually acts as a barrier to creativity. Beginner writers feel like they must develop their stories and characters to conform to the monomyth, OR actively try to subvert it.

Because it's so pervasive, it's become a conceptual framework that blinkers beginner writers to other opportunities and story types.

[epistler]

Because it's so pervasive, it's become a conceptual framework that blinkers beginner writers to other opportunities and story types.

And I've been studiously ignoring it for my entire career.

[ultimate_cheetah]

And I've been studiously ignoring it for my entire career.

We don't even study it in my english class. We instead study the structures almost all stories have. Start, rising action, climax, and falling action.

[epistler]

I didn't learn about it until I was doing my Bachelor's Degree, and I instantly hated it. It just sucked all the joy out of storytelling for me.

[ultimate_cheetah]

Oh yeah. And it's predominantly western, and ignores other kinds of story conventions. For example, the Japanese concept of mono no aware.