Green Brick Commentary
Mar. 8th, 2022 09:44 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mara_dienne459 posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
antishurtugal_rebornChapter Fifty-One: The Rock of Kuthian
Through the funky apple grove and over the river and through the woods to grandmother’s house the Eragon group goes. They stop in front of the rock and when they stop, a bunch of crows launches into the air saying nasty things about Saphira. Eragon takes it as a bad omen. For half an hour, Eragon stands there in his spot and cast spell after spell trying to find anything that’ll harm them. There’s a bunch of spells in the clearing and the island itself, of varying degrees of strength and power, and a lot of them are dormant for some reason. Eragon also can’t determine most of the purposes of the spells, since no record of the spells exist, and the structures of the magic are so difficult, if not impossible, to figure out. Glaedr helps a little, because he’s familiar with a lot of the magic, because of course he is, but otherwise Eragon has to guess. Most of the time, all he can figure out is if the spell is going to hurt them or not, and it takes him yet another hour to examine everything.
We’re told that he’s most worried - and what Glaedr is worried about, too - are the spells that he can’t detect, and we’re told that it’s near impossible to find another magic user’s work if they tried to hide it. Finally he’s confident enough to proceed, and he and Saphira head across the green to stand in front of the spire. Eragon looks toward the top and decides it seems so far away. He sees nothing unusual about the stone, and neither does Saphira, so she says let’s say our names and be done. Eragon asks Glaedr for a second opinion, but Glaedr agrees with Saphira and tells them to get a move on. So Eragon says his name, plus who his daddy is. Saphira says her name, and who her mama is, and Glaedr says his name, plus Eldunari like it’s his surname now, and says his mom is somebody named Nithring and she had a super long tail.
Because any of that is necessary.
Anyway, they wait, and the crows laugh at them, and Eragon gets uneasy but he ignores it. He finally tells us that he hadn’t expected opening the vault would be that easy. So Glaedr says let’s try again but in the ancient language this time. So they do, and again nothing happens. Eragon gets nervous and starts whining about their trip being in vain... but he decides not to think about it, and then he says that maybe all of their names have to be said aloud. Saphira asks how that’s supposed to happen, since she doesn’t have a physical voice. Is she supposed to roar at the stone? And Glaedr can’t talk either. Eragon says he can say their names for them. Glaedr says that’s probably not the answer, but whatever, let’s try. Eragon asks which language he should say their names in, and Glaedr says the ancient language, but do both anyway just to be sure. So Eragon does so, and nothing happens for a third time. Eragon gets frustrated and says maybe they’re in the wrong place and maybe the entrance to the Vault is on the other side of the rock. Or maybe it’s at the very top. Glaedr says that if that were the case, wouldn’t the directions be in the Book ex Machina? Eragon wonders when riddles are ever easy to understand.
Saphira then pipes in and wonders if Eragon is supposed to say his name by himself. She repeats what Solembum told him early on, and she points out that it’s supposed to be his name, not hers, not Glaedr’s, but Eragon’s and Eragon’s alone.
Eragon frowned. It’s possible, I suppose. But if only my name is needed, then perhaps I have to be by myself when I say it.
Why would you think you have to be by yourself when you say your name? That wasn’t in the instructions at all. Also, neither were Saphira’s or Glaedr’s names mentioned in the instructions. In fact, the rules are pretty much right there for all their vagueness. This is just a stupid filler chapter to tell us that the goal is finally right there but they can’t access it because they don’t know their name. Which is just fancy speech for “you don’t know your true name and therefore you can’t enter”. Which, now that I think about it, is a really stupid way to key a lock. True names change as the person grows, and beyond that, you can’t pinpoint a true name so accurately that some random asshole a century and a half later will be able to open a damn door. What if you guess wrong? What if the person’s true name changed between the time you set the lock and to when they arrive? There’s too many variables. And if this stupid door is linked to Eragon’s true name, then there’s a fucking paradox going on here. And I say that because only Eragon would be able to know his true name, and therefore only he would be able to set the lock, which means he would have to orchestrate his own conception in order to be able to open the door. That, or the dragonballs in the vault guessed at his coming and his true name. Or they manipulated Brom into getting with Selena to make Eragon, which opens up that Pandora’s Box of paradoxes again, because how would the dragonballs know which true name would be needed unless they already somehow knew from being told, and they had to orchestrate the conception of Eragon in order to get the stupid door open? When you think really hard about this, you realize just how stupid this is. It’s not clever. It’s just stupid.
Saphira growls but she leaps into the air and snaps at him to hurry the fuck up. When she’s far enough away, Eragon looks back at the rock, raises his shield, and says his name in Alaglagian and in the ancient language. Nothing happens.
And I’m so reminded of the scene in Lord of the Rings where they’re trying to get into Moria and they have to figure out the riddle on the door, and Frodo is the one who figures out that they have to say the Elvish name for “friend” to answer the riddle.
Eragon calls out to Saphira to bring her back, and he starts swearing and pacing and reacting with violence as is his wont. Saphira returns and Glaedr states the obvious, that Eragon didn’t win the game. Eragon replies:
No, snapped Eragon, and he glared at the spire.
Oh my god, get the fuck over yourself. Did you really think it was going to be that easy? That you’d just be able to waltz up to a place you didn’t even know existed except for a fucking prophecy you were given and bam! you’d just be able to get in like that? Since when in the history of ever has that happened? Even Indiana Jones didn’t have an easy time of it trying to get the Holy Grail. He had riddles and had to figure out the answer to those riddles or end up dead. He didn’t just get to waltz in and immediately cross the bridge of faith. He had to figure out that the bridge was there by taking the first step and having faith that the bridge would be there. Otherwise he’d be dead. But it’s nice to see the little pissant hasn’t matured any. His first reaction is still violence and anger that life isn’t going his way. Instead of, you know, thinking that there has to be some other explanation as to why this isn’t working and figuring out it has to be his true name. But he can’t figure that out on his own, apparently, so he’s got to be told. This kid is denser than a brick, I swear. An insufferable, selfish, irritating brick.
Glaedr sighs and says he figured this would happen, and then says there’s only one explanation. Eragon immediately jumps the gun and starts whining about how Solembum lied to them and sent them off on this wild goose chase so that Galby can fuck everyone up while they’re away. Glaedr says no, that in order to open this... this... he flails for a bit before Saphira supplies him with the “vault of souls” as the answer, and Glaedr says yes, that, and says that in order to open it, they must speak their true names. Everyone is silent after that and Eragon says his intimidated by the thought, but he’s reluctant to say so because maybe doing so would make the situation worse. Saphira suggests that it might be a trap, and Glaedr agrees with her that it would be the worst trap, but the question that needs answered is do they trust Solembum. He starts explaining the whole “if you tell anyone your true name they can control you” and asks if they can be honest with themselves enough to discover their true names, and quickly. He drones on for a while about it, like are you sure, are you really really really sure you can deal with this. Eragon feels dismay and the chapter closes with him asking himself who he is.
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Date: 2022-03-08 05:34 pm (UTC)Maybe the Eldunarya first decided what the true name would be and so who the person would be who was to enter the vault, and then went on to manipulate Eragon into having that true name.
Later on, they admit they manipulated Eragon and Saphira, sending them to the Varden for example and making them rescue Arya. Considering this, it seems likely to me they also manipulated them in other ways, maybe even changed their personalities, to make them the perfect the perfect new Rider and dragon to enact their desires. Espacially as they would have to be exaxtly as the Eldunarya wanted them to to get a chance at killing Galbatorix. They say, too, they did something comparable to Brom, turning him into a weapon against the Forsworn.
No-one would notice this, much less be able to call them out on it, and considering the Riders' probable track record it would certainly be likely.
Which makes the whole Vault of Souls thing even worse, considering even the main characters would only be puppets for a bunch of dead dragons, without being able to change it. Little wonder they have such a fatalistic attitude.
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Date: 2022-03-09 02:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 11:00 am (UTC)I know right? A mature person does not throw toddler tantrums because Baby's not getting what he wants. Hey, remember that bit in Eldest where he claimed to have "the patience of a dragon"? Yeah, that didn't last beyond maybe two paragraphs, did it?
And he's still acting like this in WormFork (are you planning to do a commentary on that too?) when he's now the head of his own Rider Academy! I pity the poor bastards who have to put up with having him as their tutor. He'd probably be the kind of teacher who hits you over the knuckles with a ruler for making spelling mistakes. Or gets bored and wanders off halfway through the lesson. Or both.
And my GODS the pacing is dragging something terrible right now - even more so than usual, that is. What is the Varden even doing while Eragon's off wasting time with giant snails and sulking?
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Date: 2022-03-09 12:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 01:06 pm (UTC)I’d have to get my hands on a copy, which means talking to Anne Bonney. But I will. :) eventually. I’m trying to be better about working on a project to completion, so it might be a while before I get there. Currently my sporking list contains the Twilight series, my own commentary on the Space Brick, and a possible sporking on a series I actually like but, as I’ve reread it, a few things have cropped up that deserved to be said.
And that’s scattered in between my own writing projects, just so I don’t keep procrastinating on them.
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Date: 2022-03-09 01:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 01:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 01:12 pm (UTC)OMG YES
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:27 pm (UTC)Of course he did lol. Everything's easy for him. He freaked out after three basic tries and accused the one who sent him there as being in league with the enemy. He's had plenty of time to think about this and reach the conclusion that he'll need his true name, or at least attempt it as a contingency. He figured out Sloan's easily enough with only a few of the man's actions to go on. I assume that means Eragon thinks he's a far more complex person than Sloan could ever dream of being.
how would the dragonballs know which true name would be needed unless they already somehow knew from being told, and they had to orchestrate the conception of Eragon in order to get the stupid door open?
Edit: Whoops I think Pangolin already expressed what I'm grappling with:
Maybe they decided on a true name with the qualities they'd want in the person opening the door and locked it with that ideal rather than a specific person? If that were the case I'd love for the true name to be emblazoned on the rock plain as day, and Eragon to try and claim it and fail and really have to struggle with his self image.
says his name in Alaglagian and in the ancient language
I've never read Inheritance myself, is there much of a difference in these names? Is he saying Shadeslayer or the latter part of Broms-son in the AL? I remember Saphira at least can be bjartskular or brightscales but can't think of how Eragon's name might translate. I hope he includes all his titles.
the question that needs answered is do they trust Solembum
Seems like a question they should have answered before making this journey.
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:31 pm (UTC)That's why I've downloaded everything here to my laptop, for easy searching and to make sure it's always there.
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:40 pm (UTC)Has anyone done a ForkSpork yet? :D I think I'm mostly curious about Angela's writing. Back when I was an Eragon fan I was excited that she was writing a book. I think the title sounded like Issin. Now I would be excited for different reasons.
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:45 pm (UTC)From my own edition: "Nam iet er Eragon Sundavar-Vergandí, sönr abr Brom."
And for Saphira and Glaedr we're only told they do.
He never takes the trouble to think ahead. When he gets into trouble because he did something stupid, he's always like "oops, should've thought of that" or "whine whine, life is not fair". He's probably too lazy to think ahead, because everything goes his way in the end anyway.
That would be something for a better story, and so, we can't have that here. Although I for one would love to see Eragon finally having to change for real.
Edit: Or it would be his chance to see how the Eldunarya were trying to forge him to be their weapon. I'd love to see his reaction to that. With some luck, he and Saphira would fly away, never to return to Algalag again.
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:50 pm (UTC)Here (hope the links work):
https://antishurtugal-reborn.dreamwidth.org/85446.html
https://antishurtugal-reborn.dreamwidth.org/86769.html
https://antishurtugal-reborn.dreamwidth.org/87207.html
Angela's writing...It's really pretentious and most of it barely makes sense in context. But there's a scene with Elva in there and the dialogue is a good deal more natural than most of Paolini's. The title was "On the Nature of the Stars", by the way (didn't really have anything much to do with the content).
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Date: 2022-03-09 03:54 pm (UTC)Wow. That would be so awesome. I bet the commentary would be 10 times as insightful as the books most of the time. At least you've got a bit of a head start on the Space Brick. :D.
What is that series, by the way?
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Date: 2022-03-09 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 04:22 pm (UTC)The title was "On the Nature of the Stars", by the way (didn't really have anything much to do with the content).
Seems pretty on-brand ;)
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Date: 2022-03-09 04:27 pm (UTC)Yep. That's why I love the cut title for the Brick Commentary: a play on the original title and the new title actually having something to do with the chapter.
I think you could randomly shuffle all the chapter titles and end up with the same amount of actual relation.
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Date: 2022-03-09 04:37 pm (UTC)Thanks for looking it up! It's basically what I thought.
He's probably too lazy to think ahead, because everything goes his way in the end anyway.
Well, zero effort on his part has gotten him this far...
Or it would be his chance to see how the Eldunarya were trying to forge him to be their weapon. I'd love to see his reaction to that. With some luck, he and Saphira would fly away, never to return to Algalag again.
Absolutely. He could realize that he's frustrated because no one is giving him the answers, and that someone has always been around to provide him with answers and items, and that for all his world-remaking power he's just a puppet that the dragons chose because his "blinkered existence" would make it that much easier to control.
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Date: 2022-03-09 05:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-09 08:30 pm (UTC)I’ll eventually be doing a rewrite of Eragon myself, and probably the Space Brick too, but it won’t be for a while yet.
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Date: 2022-03-10 01:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-10 02:16 am (UTC)Ha yeah, and that's a real laugh, isn't it? Eragon is NOT a deep or complicated person. Saphira even less so. Good characters have layers and complex motivations and fully developed psyches and such, and these two have none of those things. If anything it's the other way around - Sloan is way more complex and actually has motivations that are explored. Eragon has no motivation at all other than expecting the whole universe to cater to his every little whim.
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Date: 2022-03-10 02:42 am (UTC)For some reason when I read this line I immediately thought about the crows from Disney's Dumbo.
"I've seen a dragonfly. I've even seen a housefly! But I ain't never seen an Eragonfly!"
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Date: 2022-03-10 02:53 am (UTC){
IF words_spoken = speaker_true_name
THEN Vault_unlocked = TRUE
}
Rather than having one specific true name as the singular password to open the Vault.
Like, theoretically anybody could get in, BUT they have to provide their true name to the vault guardians as a security measure (making themselves vulnerable to complete mental slavery or even the erasure of their personhood and personal identity, if they have ill intentions or try to harm or steal the contents of the vault).
Much like how Voldemort's Cave in Harry Potter book 7 was implied (or assumed by the fans) to work: anyone can get in, but now Voldemort has a sample of your blood, which can theoretically be used in dark potions or rituals to harm you if you entered without his approval.
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Date: 2022-03-10 04:16 am (UTC)Also theoretically speaking, if the rules of "speak the true name = guaranteed entrance to the vault", then technically ANYONE could've gotten in, even if by accident. It didn't have to be Eragon. It could've been Oromis. Or Brom. Or any Rider that came to the island AFTER Galby and the Forsworn were done looting the place. True, they would've had to have all the pieces of the puzzle to get there to begin with, as Eragon eventually ends up doing, but I can't set aside my belief enough that the dead dragon balls would create this vault with the purpose of protecting x-amount of eggs and balls and then wait around 100 plus years JUST for this one particular kid to show up, when they could've literally gotten ANYONE else in the interim to do it. Especially since Galby abandoned the island soon after his victory there and the place was more or less abandoned for a century. Oromis and Glaedr could've easily snuck out of the forest, as Galby believed they were dead, and they could've gone there to retrieve the goods.
But if this story followed that logical a path or a similar logical path, then I guess we couldn't bask in the greatness of the Sue.
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Date: 2022-03-10 04:39 am (UTC)That's the thing about self-insert power fantasies, nothing makes sense except in the light of "Eragon is central to everything".
...To borrow and completely mangle a quote originally about the importance of evolution to modern biology.
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Date: 2022-03-10 11:35 am (UTC)They leave disappointed AND THEN A BAND OF LOCALS WHO TOTALLY HATE THE RIDERS BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED ALL THOSE YEARS AGO SLAUGHTER THE PAIR OF THEM WITH THEIR NEW DRAGON ALLIES AND ELDUNARI POWERUPS HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
...ahem, sorry. Got a little carried away there.
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Date: 2022-03-10 03:27 pm (UTC)If anyone who was living on this island just happened to be at the rock of Kuthian and say their true name, just for the hell of it, or even for a simple reason of trying to understand themselves better, or someone was trying to enslave someone else, OR the people were holding trial there and to uphold the punishment the true name of the person was spoken (much like how Eragon did to Sloan), then that vault would’ve been discovered right away and looted.
Either way, the whole vault thing is just stupid.
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Date: 2022-03-10 03:32 pm (UTC)I would be interested to see which way the rewrite goes, but I will see it in due time.
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Date: 2022-03-10 03:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-10 04:41 pm (UTC)Really. *shakes head*
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Date: 2022-03-10 05:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-10 05:57 pm (UTC)I may be reaching but I wonder if CP was trying to approach this situation in a different way in TSiaSoS with the Staff of Blue. Though that was a broken dead end, whereas if the Vault of Souls was looted, there might still be a way forward.
Perhaps the real problem is his reliance on Powerups and not the circumstances around obtaining them, since I don't understand why the Seed couldn't just make a new staff since it makes the green one. Then again I think the Seed was handled badly in every way. Almost makes me want to write a spitefic where the Seed is happy to have a host to go terraforming with and Kira's like "No, WAR."
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Date: 2022-03-11 12:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-11 02:39 am (UTC)At their core, is that not what eldunarya are? Dragon souls trapped in pokeballs?
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Date: 2022-03-11 03:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-03-11 04:53 am (UTC)You are clearly not wrong.
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Date: 2022-03-12 01:06 pm (UTC)Being surly and grumpy doesn't make you a bad person, after all. Actually this reminds me of something: there was a really good short animated Doctor Strange movie (which came out before the Benedict Cumberbatch film), which I put on for some kids to watch - we're talking kids aged about six to ten. In the movie Dr Strange is a rude and cranky person who is a jerk to people, and one kid immediately assumed that meant he was the villain. I explained to the kid that no, he's not a bad guy - he's cranky because he's sad about his sister dying. Like most little kids, this one didn't understand that grief and depression can manifest as anger and hostility. Given that he lost the love of his life, it's perfectly understandable that Sloan would be grumpy and miserable, and even more so that he'd be terrified of losing his only child as well. And that level of fear makes irrational behaviour perfectly understandable, if not justified.
In other words Sloan's motivations and behaviour make complete sense and are sympathetic. Eragon's behaviour only makes sense in the context of his being a nasty little spoilt brat whose upbringing never taught him any goddamn humility. Which is, surprise surprise, not sympathetic in the slightest.
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Date: 2022-03-12 01:19 pm (UTC)Ha, yes. And it wasn't just 19th century treasure hunters either - plenty of tombs were looted when the mummy had barely even gone cold.
It's easily one of THE biggest deus ex machinas I have EVER seen in any work of fiction. Aw, poor wickle Eragon is in a tough situation and doesn't have an easy out? Don't worry, here's a cave full of free power-ups! Oh and also all the ridiculous contrivances so far have now been explained away so the author gets himself off the hook at the same time! Yay!
Bah.
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Date: 2022-03-12 01:33 pm (UTC)A plot twist which could have been interesting if it had gone in any other direction than "oh well, let's just leave then". I would have had them take the broken pieces with them and had a race against time scenario as they desperately tried to fix it before the war is lost.
I think you're right. There's nothing inherently Bad about having a character obtain special powers, but how you handle it is what makes the difference. If they didn't earn it, then they have to do so retroactively by selflessly using them for the greater good, a la most superheroes. And before anyone says Kiragon does that - no she fucking doesn't, because she doesn't risk anything in the process. She's never in any actual danger, and she doesn't sacrifice anything.
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Date: 2022-03-14 04:07 am (UTC)I'm glad you were there to help with perspective and complexity. I worked with 9-16 y/o kids as a summer camp counselor and I found myself in a few discussions that made me nervous--not because I didn't think the kids could handle it, but because I was worried about potential parent reactions (was never an issue, much like most of my worries lol).
I know They say that reading can make people more empathetic, but that must extend to any media that can show another experience. Though in CP's case it doesn't hold water.
In other words Sloan's motivations and behaviour make complete sense and are sympathetic. Eragon's behaviour only makes sense in the context of his being a nasty little spoilt brat whose upbringing never taught him any goddamn humility.
It's interesting that CP created Sloan and gave him more (any) backstory and motivation than Eragon and treats them totally backward. I tend to be too hard on the choices/actions of fictional children and young adults but change my tune if there's an arc to it or if my own perspective gets shifted at some point (for example, loving Arya in Game of Thrones but taking a while to see the value of Sansa bc she starts out spoiled and wanting eye-roll inducing things). Sometimes it's me, sometimes it's the writing. I think Eragon's arrogance could have been neat once he became a Rider if he'd always dreamed of having some clout and then arced his way back out of it. Vanir might have been the best opportunity for this, but Eragon doesn't see himself in Vanir and gets Power Ups until Vanir is ready to bow down.
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Date: 2022-03-14 05:00 am (UTC)One thing I really liked in Eragon was the limitations on his power. I thought it was clever how he collapsed the tunnels, and that it took him a long time to accomplish. Then he gets all that power and is capable of having all the same ideas as CP, he can suddenly see how to solve a puzzle ring instead of fiddling with it until he succeeds. And that's how we get chapters like this one in which Eragon can't handle his first effort not being enough.
she doesn't risk anything in the process. She's never in any actual danger, and she doesn't sacrifice anything.
And there's no sense of urgency. The Big Bads are gonna be there until the heroes are ready to take them on, and consequences aren't demonstrated where it counts. They don't really have goals, or their goals are a threat for the future instead of a reason the hero has to get on with things. Eragon never has to worry that people will lose faith in him and accept Galby, or have his magic sealed away (except maybe the first part of Eldest) or his connection to Saphira severed. Du Weldenvarden isn't burned down or used as a battery for some nefarious scheme.* CP is comfortable with brutality and scavenger hunts but none of the dire situations that make me ache for characters in better plotted stories.
*I assume--I went from being a fan to being a critic when I tried to read Brisingr. I was big into LotR and Dragonriders of Pern so I liked the first two books because they reminded me of those series that I had finished, even though I was giving it the side-eye for those same reasons. But then the whole "Half of the young men gave their frames a vigorous shake when they stepped forward with their right foot, producing a dolorous cacophony of notes" thing happened and my eyes glazed over. My experience with books 3 & 4 are entirely through SwankIvy and you guys.
I would have had them take the broken pieces with them and had a race against time scenario as they desperately tried to fix it before the war is lost.
Oh yeah, why'dn't they just do that? Seems like something SB should have been able to do.
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Date: 2022-03-14 06:48 am (UTC)Remember how in book one failing a spell meant death "without exception", as Brom claimed? And then that limitation just magically disappeared at some point and was never mentioned again.
It's so boring and irritating. There isn't even any sense of a dire situation when Nas is being tortured because CP refuses to take the gloves off and actually make the torture stick. Real torture would have reduced her to a shadow of her former self, but instead she gets all these copouts (toilet breaks! A magic spell which makes the torture painless!) and just gets over the whole ordeal after a good night's sleep and a chat with Elva. Come on.
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Date: 2024-12-24 03:19 pm (UTC)The original image was this: